I mean, President Tsai has just announced a 40% boost in Taiwan’s defense spending. You face an army, a standing army of about 2 million in total. I think you’ve got something like 170,000.

You’ve cut your Army personnel by more than half since the 1990s. It’s that kind of defense strategy that the Admiral is referring to. And so that’s all pretty unwise, isn’t it, that kind of approach?

Sure.

So, for example, the Taiwanese tycoon Robert Tsao has pledged 33 million USD to help train civilian fighters, as you’re referring to there.

But he’s doing the job of government there, isn’t he? He’s trying to fill in the holes to make up for the lack of a proper defense strategy that the government should be addressing.

All right. When it comes to defense, it seems like Taiwan is going to be relying a great deal on the United States. The US Senate has passed a bill to provide $6.5 billion to fund weapons and other military support for Taiwan. A strong bipartisan strategy for the Americans there.

And President Biden, it seems, has been abandoning American policy, which has been called strategic ambiguity for many years, not spelling out what would happen, from America’s point of view, if China did invade Taiwan.

But now he’s saying that the US would get involved militarily if China invaded Taiwan. He says, “Yes, that’s the commitment we made.” And when pressed in an interview on American TV, whether that meant that American men and women would defend Taiwan, he answered, “Yes.”

So what’s your interpretation now of US policy towards Taiwan?

Do you see a shift in policy? Do you see an abandonment of that strategic ambiguity in favor of a more robust approach?

Yeah. So you do. But do you think that’s reassuring for the Taiwanese? Or arguably, it could put you right in the middle of the growing tensions between China and the United States. You could end up becoming a pawn in this superpower rivalry.

Sticking with the tensions, you’re not escalating the tensions, but the tensions between China and the United States are escalating. Joe Biden has got the export controls now on Chinese technology and so on. And my point is, how is Taiwan viewing this?

Because I’ll give you a quote, Michael Swain from the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft says Biden’s statements make Taiwan less secure because they increase the chance of the US being pulled into a war. Makes you less secure. Is it right?

It’s the better democratic partner and they’re willing to commit…

..military support, and that’s something that’s good in your opinion.

All right. Finally, as Minister of Digital Affairs, Audrey Tang, you’re trying to transform Taiwan into a digital democracy. Around 87% of people under the age of 12 are connected. And you want to increase citizen participation online.

How do you think you’re going to be able to develop this? I mean, could you go the way of China that uses surveillance to increase its authoritarianism?

America, where we’ve seen the internet being used in a way that polarizes society more. How are you going to avoid falling into either trap?

Audrey Tang, Minister of Digital Affairs here in Taiwan, thank you very much indeed for coming on HARDtalk.