Shall I introduce myself, or shall I just start with my question?
I’m political scientist. I’ve been doing Internet research in Germany since the early 1990s. I’ve done many different things. Standard development, my first project was on IPv6, I looked at what engineers argue about.
Then I did a long stint in ICANN. I was a candidate of the global elections in 2000. Then I did IGF, that’s where I met Kuo-Wei.
Yeah. I did all these things, and over the last 10 years, I’ve done more research again. I’m interested in digitalization and democracy, that’s my field.
What I’ve been doing now in my sabbatical is spend a month in Singapore and one here – here I do five weeks – to understand how they are related, digitalization and democracy. It is very interesting to see also the difference between the two countries.
I’m glad that I can interview you. My first introductory question was, what are your main achievements in this term, of the government? What’s the outcome that you are proud of?
When I’ve been asking people over the last months, what are the major digital issues in this country, one of the things they come up with is data protection and the big data breach you had last year.
[laughs]
Yeah. People say that it’s the largest, by far.
What is the role of your ministry in that problem, because you don’t have data protection as an area of competence, have you?
Is it good to have this divided? Would you not want to have…?
Yeah, you get one at some point, right?
You, as a councilor, also have a say in its competencies and its scope?
Because they didn’t find it independent enough?
The budget would have…
Did you accept that argument? Did you find it a good one?
You were divided.
Why? Is there a technical reason for having them not founded at the same time?
They often do.
Another question regarding DPA. Will it be a small one, will it be a big one? Will it have any power? Does it also, that public administration is part of its scope, or is it…?
How many people will it have?
Because often they’re understaffed. In many countries in Europe, they’re understaffed. That’s a way of weakening data protection by making implementation and controls difficult. For example, the most famous case is Ireland.
Have you heard about that? The GDPR is seriously hampered by the fact that Ireland is responsible for everything concerning Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. because their European branch is always located in Ireland.
That is an issue, and I wonder whether something similar could happen here that it’s too small to actually do a proper job. That’s why I’m asking.
Speaking of commissions, as far as I know, there was a debate here whether digital affairs should have the form of a ministry or rather be a commision. What was your view in this debate?
Because what I heard is that commission in the logic of Taiwanese ministries and government would be more cross-cutting issues.
Because it connects ministries.
You would say that for you it made more sense to run a ministry, or to create and run a ministry than have digital affair organized as a commission?
It’s a tradeoff.
Speaking of DSA, it seems to evolve into global blueprint in various countries, projecting ideas, hopes…
What’s your take on the DSA? Do you like it? Do you criticize it?
DMA?
The DSA does not only increase accountability and transparency of platforms, it also needs to address disinformation. There’s a lot of criticism with regard to that part.
What is your take? People here talk a lot about disinformation. What do you think the government should do with regard to that?
They also have side effects.
No, but also, takedowns have side effects.
As a councilor of the NCC, you would advise against adopting a version…?
I thought you were, as a minister…
Oh, NDC. Sorry.
That’s independent. Now let’s put it that way, if you were advising the NCC, would you advise them to adopt or not to adopt the DSA?
Yeah.
I agree. [laughs]
I rather thought that if journalism would work better in this country had a higher quality, then disinformation wouldn’t have that kind of effect.
Would you say that, as a minister in this country, that is part of your responsibility to…?
Cynics would say that is spreading short of giving money to bad journalism, to make them earn more money with bad outcomes. How do you make sure that it goes into qualified journalists?
I thought, after listening to a few fact-checkers here, that it would be good to have a code of conduct for media companies, with teeth, having someone checking that they also follow through. What do you think of that?
Most people probably say that disinformation is mainly of Chinese origin, and others say there is a lot coming also from domestic sources. Do you have any…?
Mainland. As a jurisdiction.
It’s an attribution problem if you mean that.
As long as they are not cut.
